disbutes

Please use this for debates, this will allow the flow of the story to not be disrupted.

written by sceadowol
(Some out of character corrections to your previous post:

-Dathyn is not human.

-Folias was killed. He is very much dead.

-The Shadowstone was destroyed when Dathyn was still in Folias' home, doing the trade.

-The glove on his hand holds an Aether Crystal- very different to a Shadowstone.

-Dathyn can see the elfs. He's an elemental and, as such, sees energy.

-Dathyn is older than Elwe: "I am Elwe, in human years I am 543" compared to "That was over a thousand years ago, now." (relating to the huntsman first finding the Shadowstone and becoming the Shadowsoul) )

Elwe Today at 18:53
Dathyn is younger than Elwe, here is an extract from my profile -

Elwe wrote:
As much as i am 543 we have 13 days in every week, we have 13 weeks in every year and there are 13 years to a decade.
2197 days in a year
169 weeks in year
13 months a year
so if i was human i would be 3268 ish.



Ok lets go through a few points with you.

Your stated Dathyn was once human who absorbed a stone and that made him into this shadow soul.

Folias is one of my elves, we are made up of energy, we do not have the physical composition of a human, we do not have bones, we do not have blood or skin, so how can we leave blood stains on the floor? Nor is Folias human

You did not destroy the shadow stone when you took it, you were un awares of it power at all, you can not change aspects of the story to suit you. You were happy with it on purchase you should remain happy with it. At least until you discover what it should do.

I apologies for call your aether chrystol glove the shadow stone

And my elves were not pin pricks of light, they had lost their solid form and had all the trees all the single leaves of grass grow to the same intensity of light as they were so indistinguishable from anything else, you had no shadow at all, even the grass beneath your feet is lit to the same intensity.

Sceadusawol Today at 20:06
You placed the emendation in after I pulled the quote. Talk about changing the story to fit?

Also, to requote: "I am Elwe, in human years I am 543" (Taken from post dated Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:31 pm on page one of the 'In the Beginning' thread.)
Please note the line 'in human years'. In 'human years' the Shadowsoul (he has only recently started using the name 'Dathyn') is over 1100 as mentioned previously: "It has been some eleven hundred years or more since my soul became Shadow." (Taken from post dated Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:39 am on page seven of the 'In the Beginning' thread.)

Allow me to use your maths here:

13 days in every week, we have 13 weeks in every year and there are 13 years to a decade.
2197 days in a year
169 weeks in year
13 months a year
Thus: The Shadowsoul is over 6,621 years old according to your calendar.

A calendar you have thus far declined to mention anywhere.

Some responses:

"Your stated Dathyn was once human who absorbed a stone and that made him into this shadow soul."
Key word to this is 'once'.
(From the character background of 'Dathyn' post dated Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:31 pm)
Without all the elements within him, his body died. He sloughed it as a butterfly does its chrysalis and became the Shadowsoul. He no longer considers himself human, or even mortal. Should someone find some way to disperse his energy (Highly unlikely, outside of literal and actual divine intervention), he will simply re-coalesce in the Elemental plane of Shadow and resume whatever it is he was doing.

Dathyn is an Elemental. An Umbral, to be specific. His form is made entirely from Umbral (Shadow) energy. More than that, he is "...the most powerful Shadow to walk this plane."
Note 'plane' and not just world.
You may also notice he spends most of his time immaterial. (such as not getting wet in the rain, etc.)


"Folias is one of my elves, we are made up of energy, we do not have the physical composition of a human, we do not have bones, we do not have blood or skin, so how can we leave blood stains on the floor? Nor is Folias human"
Never said Folias was human, just that you mentioned that Energy Elves (Be nice to get a specific energy here, as I wrote enough about the nature of energy in the game world) could take on a solid form (which I may have mistakenly presumed to mean flesh and blood). The glove Dathyn used trapped Folias in a solid form, allowing Dathyn to more easily dispatch him.


"You did not destroy the shadow stone when you took it"
I quote:
Releasing the elf's hand, Dathyn uncovered the amulet and looked at it again. Reaching out, he grabbed for the amulet, but his fingers passed clean through it, as though his hand was made of smoke. The room briefly darkened as his fingers grazed the bound Shadowstone and, when the light returned, the amulet held no stone, and the Aether Crystals had ceased their flickering, instead giving out a steady light.

To explain what happened here: Dathyn, being an entity composed entirely out of Shadow energy absorbed the energy of the (synthetic) Shadowstone. Consider, for a moment, that Dathyn is the best manipulator of Shadow energy on the whole plane, and the foremost expert in Elemental energy on Sanda. He would have known the moment he saw it that it was not what it appeared.
Even if it was the genuine article, he would have processed the energy like a mortal processes food. It would have passed through him.

He even went on to take the amulet apart and use the raw materials to create his Aether gauntlet.

"my elves were not pin pricks of light"
They were the source of the light:
"..everyone in the village transformed into their natural forms.
This generated a light from each of us..."
To Umbral eyes, that would have been mere pinpricks of light. Not saying that the elves were pinpricks of light, just that they would appear so, to Elementals.
Energy Elves may be made of energy, but they are not full Elementals. Otherwise they would be called Elementals and not Elves.

"you had no shadow at all, even the grass beneath your feet is lit to the same intensity."
Dathyn does not have a shadow. He is Shadow. To remove all Shadow from Orome would have meant banishing Dathyn (More power than a city of light would generate) and would have had disastrous side effects. (cf post dated Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:45 pm on the 'In The Beginning' thread. Where Dathyn removes all the Umbral energy from a vampire.)
Since Elwe continued to approach Dathyn, and speak to him, I made the basic assumption that he was still there. I also made the assumption that, due to Orome not imploding, that not all the shadow energy had been pushed back.


To surmise. I have kept consistency in my posts, and not altered anything to fit.

The entire idea about the synthetic Shadowstone was simply to open a story line involving the 'Alchemists'. Some antagonists I was/am intending to introduce, to give my character (and any others who wanted to join in) something to knock heads against.
I had already mentioned that Dathyn was potentially capable of destroying a city, so his power level is also consistent (he actually cheated in this instance, by creating a portal and getting other, less powerful Umbrals to do his work for him.)

You placed the emendation in after I pulled the quote. Talk about changing the story to fit? - no amendment was done, but i do thank you for noticing the typing error. Also, to requote: "I am Elwe, in human years I am 543" No changes to the story were made to make it 'fit'

Please note the line 'in human years'. In 'human years' the Shadowsoul is over 1100 as mentioned previously.
]color=red]ok going off of your 1100 year old. you do not use the elven calendar so 1100 times by 365 = 401,500 days old, divide that by the amount of days in an elven year (2197) you in comparison to me are 182years old.
Allow me to use your maths here: 13 days in every week, we have 13 weeks in every year and there are 13 years to a decade. 2197 days in a year, 169 weeks in year, 13 months a year
Thus: The Shadowsoul is over 6,621 years old according to your calendar. A calendar you have thus far declined to mention anywhere.
this calendar is in my bio and as mentioned above your maths is wrong

Some responses: "Your stated Dathyn was once human who absorbed a stone and that made him into this shadow soul." Key word to this is 'once'. (From the character background of 'Dathyn' post dated Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:31 pm) Without all the elements within him, his body died..... he will simply re-coalesce in the Elemental plane of Shadow and resume whatever it is he was doing.

Dathyn is an Elemental. An Umbral, to be specific. His form is made entirely from Umbral energy. More than that, he is "...the most powerful Shadow to walk this plane." Note 'plane' and not just world. You may also notice he spends most of his time immaterial. (such as not getting wet in the rain, etc.)

Never said Folias was human, just that you mentioned that Energy Elves (Be nice to get a specific energy here, as I wrote enough about the nature of energy in the game world) could take on a solid form (which I may have mistakenly presumed to mean flesh and blood). The glove Dathyn used trapped Folias in a solid form, allowing Dathyn to more easily dispatch him.
Why does everything need to be labeled so definitively?

"You did not destroy the shadow stone when you took it"
I quote: Releasing the elf's hand, Dathyn uncovered the amulet and looked at it again. Reaching out, he grabbed for the amulet, but his fingers passed clean through it, as though his hand was made of smoke. The room briefly darkened as his fingers grazed the bound Shadowstone and, when the light returned, the amulet held no stone, and the Aether Crystals had ceased their flickering, instead giving out a steady light.

To explain what happened here: Dathyn, being an entity composed entirely out of Shadow energy absorbed the energy of the (synthetic) Shadowstone. Consider, for a moment, that Dathyn is the best manipulator of Shadow energy on the whole plane, and the foremost expert in Elemental energy on Sanda. He would have known the moment he saw it that it was not what it appeared. He absorbed the 'poison' without realising it was, as it states in the post.
Even if it was the genuine article, he would have processed the energy like a mortal processes food. More like how a 'mortal' processes a blood transfusion. It would have passed through him. It would have clung on and binded with him, like a disease. He even went on to take the amulet apart and use the raw materials to create his Aether gauntlet.

"my elves were not pin pricks of light"
They were the source of the light:
"..everyone in the village transformed into their natural forms.
This generated a light from each of us..."
To Umbral eyes, that would have been mere pinpricks of light. Not saying that the elves were pinpricks of light, just that they would appear so, to Elementals.
Energy Elves may be made of energy, but they are not full Elementals. Otherwise they would be called Elementals and not Elves.
I am sure I have stated that they are elementals that take on the appearance of elves, If I have not it is probably because I do not like the word elemental. Personal preference to the word energy

"you had no shadow at all, even the grass beneath your feet is lit to the same intensity."
Dathyn does not have a shadow. He is Shadow. To remove all Shadow from Orome would have meant banishing Dathyn (More power than a city of light would generate) and would have had disastrous side effects. Why and how would it, if you do not understand the concept of their powerok for starters one person does not hold more power than all of those in orome, i have thousands of elves in my city alone, i have the energy of every animal in and around my city, the forest is filled with life, i have explained that every bit of the world has something living in it, I have not expelled all shadow, I have expelled all shadow from around you, trapping you in one place, allowing use to converse without you attacking any further

Since Elwe continued to approach Dathyn, and speak to him, I made the basic assumption that he was still there. I also made the assumption that, due to Orome not imploding, that not all the shadow energy had been pushed back. Again, why would it implode? All shadow was banished, apart from you.

To surmise. I have kept consistency in my posts, and not altered anything to fit. Neither has Elwe.
The entire idea about the synthetic Shadowstone was simply to open a story line involving the 'Alchemists'. Some antagonists I was/am intending to introduce, to give my character (and any others who wanted to join in) something to knock heads against.
I had already mentioned that Dathyn was potentially capable of destroying a city, so his power level is also consistent (he actually cheated in this instance, by creating a portal and getting other, less powerful Umbrals to do his work for him.
dathyn could be capable to do such things if he was free

"You do not use the elven calendar"
At the risk of repeating myself or, more exactly, you:
"I am Elwe, in human years I am 543"
To compare: "I am Dathyn, in human years I am over 1100."

"your maths is wrong"
My maths works just as well as your does.
Let me demonstrate:

543 in human years = 3268 by your maths.
That is (543 x 2197) / 365 = 3268.413698 years.

1100 in human years = 6,621 by your maths.
That is (1100 x 2197) / 365 = 6621.09589 years.

"this calendar is in my bio"
Out of curiosity, when was it added to your bio?
Even presuming it was added when the post was initially placed (Mon May 31, 2010 6:51 pm), it is still after I made my introductory post (Sat May 29, 2010 4:05 am) stating roughly how old Dathyn is, which was based on the fair assumption that there was only one calendar to work with.

"Why does everything need to be labeled so definitively?"
To avoid confusion and conflict. To create a fuller, more 'real' world to play in/write about. Because it enhances the experience, rather than having everything vague. Why is the Mona Lisa worth more than the drawing of a stick man? Because the detail is what leaves the impression.
It also helps to keep continuity.

"I am sure I have stated that they are elementals that take on the appearance of elves"
Closest you get is:
"Everything has a core of energy, this energy is what we elves are"
Which could be construed as saying you are Elementals. However, the part saying 'we elves' is quite clear. You don't use the word 'Elemental' (for whatever reason) to label the race, which gives the presumption that they are elves, which is a Fae (not Elemental) species.

"Why and how would it, if you do not understand the concept of their powerok for starters one person does not hold more power than all of those in orome"
Why would he not understand the concept of their power? It is energy manipulation. Dathyn is the leading expert in that field. And where do you say that one person does not hold more power than all those in Orome? I know I have posted that Dathyn is quite capable of destroying an entire city, if he so chose.
In this instance, you misunderstand what he did. He did not destroy Orome. He simply pulled more Shadow into the area. Enough to open a portal, allowing more Umbrals (that would be Shadow Elementals, as mentioned elsewhere) to appear in the area. They then went through the city, hunting and devouring the Energy Elves. As to how successful that actually is, you have yet to respond in game in a way that minimises casualties.

"I have not expelled all shadow"
Your words are misleading:
"no shadow was cast in Orome."
plus
"you had no shadow at all, even the grass beneath your feet is lit to the same intensity."
Gives the impression that expelling all Shadow is what you were after.
Add to that what I have to say about Dathyn, in his Character thread:
"he can be anywhere there are shadows."
You have no shadows in Orome, you have no Dathyn. Since you clearly demonstrated he was still present, Shadow must also have been present.

"trapping you in one place"
I fail to see where in Dathyn's background I have given the idea that would happen. I even went so far as to say (as previously mentioned) that doing something like Elwe did (removing Shadow) would result in his banishment to the Elemental plane of Shadow.

"Again, why would it implode? All shadow was banished, apart from you."
Let us recap what Dathyn did to the vampire:

"Dathyn nodded understanding, and glanced at the vampire.
The Shadowy tendrils that held the thing in an immovable grip suddenly plunged into the vampire, writing and twisting sinuously as they did so. They left no wound or mark, entering the cadaverous fiend like a razor blade through smoke. As rapidly as they entered, the tendrils suddenly withdrew, arcing back to Dathyn.

As the tendrils pulled away from the vampire, it seemed to shrink in on itself. The creature writhed in agony briefly and was gone, a quiet thunderclap created by air rushing to fill the gap in reality left by the disappeared vampire, only a minute crater in the ground showing where it has once stood.

As Dathyn absorbed the last of the creature's Umbral energy..."

What we see here is the removal of Umbral energy. Take all the Shadow out of a thing, or place, and it will implode.
Reference my treatise on Elemental energy:

"Aether is the cohesive energy that contains and constrains the Fundamental Elements. It is, quite literally, the energy that holds reality together.

By contrast, the energy that keeps the energies distinct from one another, Umbra is responsible for holding Aether at bay, preventing containment from becoming constriction."
It is not the Umbral energy that cause the implosion, but the lack of it.

"dathyn could be capable to do such things if he was free"
Considering how many would have wanted his power for themselves of the centuries, you don't think something like this has not already been attempted/ occurred to Dathyn? It is such an obvious method entrapment that Dathyn would not have lasted ten years without having defences against such a thing.

"Dathyn has said the light does not provide any protection; it is amazing how narrow minded these shadow elementals can be. They are blinkered, they rest assured by themselves their power is the strongest, the best, rarely in their lives do they cross paths with those that can vanquish, they are allowed to believe what they want."
Have you read what I wrote on Elemental energies? As you pointed out.
There is no belief of superiority. Only equality. However, different species have different levels of power. Your Energy Elves (which are patently minor Aether manipulators) would be equal in power to Umbral Elves (minor Umbra manipulators). Dathyn, as previously stated, is the most powerful Umbral energy manipulator in the dimensional plane Sanda Ndor inhabits. Which mean he is far more powerful, one on one, than any Energy Elf. It'd be like putting a tiger against a domestic cat.

"With all the eyes of her people watching these events unfold, and each person sending there visuals through to Elwe from difference angles, provides Elwe with a picture which updates quicker then she would be able to see with her own eyes. A pigeon can see 75 frames a second; a human is believed to see 25 frames a second. If Elwe could see at the human’s 25 frames a second usually, this connection with her people would be like having a flock of pigeons."
Care to point out where, in Elwe's list of powers, it says she can do that?
Can't be making shit up on the fly.

"seems to be showing a strain, though the look of glee of his face"
See Rule 2: You can only control YOUR character
I mentioned nothing about strain, or glee. Nor can you remove the shadow that constantly conceals his face, as it is actually part of him.

"Yes of course shadow is untraceable in light, as untraceable in light as a lit torch that is blazing in a dark room."
In my list of abilities. You CANNOT find him if he chooses to remain hidden: Can't be detected/scryed.
In your list of abilities, you state: when a life force appears or disapearis i can feel it, the further away it is the less i can.
I already pointed out that Elementals are not living things, as most recognise. Basically, you would be attuned to living things, but not Elementals, which are pure energy.

"The Aether glove Dathyn is wearing is glowing strong"
No it isn't. It has been totally dormant since the death of Folias.

"There is a thin web cloaking the immediate area of Orome this web is as thin as a spiders, this net is not covering the whole of Orome, there are some of my people on the outside of it."
Actually, you will read that: Dathyn wrapped invisible strands of Umbral energy around the web of Aetheric energy suffusing the elf city it covers the entire energy network of the Energy Elves.

"These people send images of them cutting the strands of the web, and it melting back like ice would from a fire."
Try again:
whilst its inhabitants would be able to sense the alien energy, they would be entirely powerless to do anything about it.
I already covered that eventuality. The Energy Elves are wholly unable to remove the tendrils.

" These strands melt all the way back to the glove."
No, they really don't. The glove is powered by Aetheric energy. The strands are Umbral. That is Dathyn's own energy.



I am presuming that whoever writes something first gets precedent, unless it obviously contradicts something written previously.
If so, stop trying to rewrite the story. It distorts continuity and means things get needlessly repeated due to people arguing over the nature of events.